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PyGanic for unknown pest

Posted by Gaye Trombley 
PyGanic for unknown pest
March 28, 2019 11:49AM
Has anyone experience using PyGanic for leafrollers or any other kind of small caterpillar.I have some questions about the product. I generally use Dipel for this but last year we got hit with a small white caterpillar that stripped the new leaves and coated the blossoms in web and showed up literally overnight and did the damage. I am looking for an instant kill in case this arrives again this year. Thanks.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/12/2019 08:43AM by Michael Phillips.
Re: Pyganic
March 31, 2019 09:21AM
Hi Gaye,
I think the first thing to do it get a good ID on the pest. Do you have a picture? And where are you located? If you knew the life cycle of the pest, you might be able to catch it sooner and use Dipel.
Pyganic might work but Entrust would probably be better. Dipel is often as effective or better than Pyganic for caterpillars, but often not as good as Entrust. It is also possible that this critter might not be a caterpillar.
The downside of using Entrust is that insects can develop resistance to it pretty easily. So it is best to use it as a last resort. If at all possible, never use it on two successive generations of a given pest. For instance, if you spray Entrust for pest A when the first generation of pest B is present, then spray it again on the 2nd generation of pest B, pest B may develop resistance in a few years and will no longer be controlled by Entrust.

Hemlock Grove Farm
Zone 5 in New York
Re: Pyganic
April 01, 2019 03:39PM
I echo Brian's comments. Also, where are you located? It's best if we also know where you are located, since you could have (and likely do) have different pest complexes in your area than we do here (unless you live here, in which case, forget what I just said). There are also other materials out there in addition to Entrust and Dipel that are goods for leps, if it is a lep. There also some larval like critters from the diptera family that aren't leps at all and so choice of materials could be altered. In any case, I haven't found that Pyganic works very well on larger insects or insects with hard shells. And it is expensive. Once you've ID'd it and/or posted an image, then the solution to your mystery shall be revealed.

Mike Biltonen, Know Your Roots
Zone 5b in New York
Re: Pyganic
April 09, 2019 09:35AM
Thanks for your response Brian. I am in Ontario Canada and have about 12,000 semi dwarf trees. I use Dipel every year for leafroller and have tried Entrust in the past. Should have photographed this little lep. I have never seen it in the orchard in my 25 years of growing. Slightly smaller than a leafroller and white versus green in colour. Didn:t roll the leaf but literally ate it overnight and just left the leaf veins. Did the same to ornamentals. I did some research into effectiveness and cost of Pyganic and would cost $7000 to make one application in the orchard. OMG.
I have used Entrust in the past and will look into it again but didn*t find it very effective.
Thanks again.and if you have any idea of this worm appreciate your thoughts.
Re: Pyganic
April 09, 2019 09:38AM
Thanks for your response Mike. I am in Ontario Canada and have about 12,000 semi dwarf trees. I use Dipel every year for leafroller and have tried Entrust in the past. Should have photographed this little lep. I have never seen it in the orchard in my 25 years of growing. Slightly smaller than a leafroller and white versus green in colour. Didn:t roll the leaf but literally ate it overnight and just left the leaf veins. Did the same to ornamentals. I did some research into effectiveness and cost of Pyganic and would cost $7000 to make one application in the orchard. OMG.
I have used Entrust in the past and will look into it again but didn*t find it very effective.
Thanks again.and if you have any idea of this worm appreciate your thoughts.
Re: Pyganic
April 09, 2019 10:44AM
I think it is oriental fruit worm!
Re: Pyganic
April 09, 2019 02:16PM
If it is in fact OFM, then that is what we refer to as an internal fruit feeder. However, your description of the lep doesn't make me believe that it is that critter. It sounds more like something else since OFM doesn't defoliate trees. It eats fruit mostly but can bore into the tree itself. A picture would be nice. That said, maybe more of a description: when did you see it first? what time of year did it do the damage? Is it a fuzzy worm, or "bald"? Any other markings? Was it around all year? You say they make a web, is it a tent like tent caterpillars or just a webbing? It almost sounds like gypsy moth, except that those are not white. Tussock moth is however. Maybe some more info....PyGanic is very expensive and probably not worth it if you have to treat it more than once a year. Entrust can be equally expensive and you have the added bonus of potential resistance, as Brian pointed out. There are parasitic wasps that can be effective, but we'd need to know what the creature is before we can ID the most appropriate beneficial insect. Neem oil can help reduce the development of the insect, but if it is coming in from off site, then that doesn't make much sense. As well, I will assume you are organic and haven't considered anything outside of that realm. Birds can be good hunters, but if the populations are so high that it takes an aviary to get them all, then again not a practical solution. If you can answer the above questions and/or get a positive ID on it, then we have something more to work with.

Mike Biltonen, Know Your Roots
Zone 5b in New York
Re: Pyganic
April 11, 2019 08:10AM
Hi Mike
As I mentioned I have never seen it in the orchard in 20 some years. It is bald, smaller than a leaf roller, white with a pink head and came right at blossom time. The web wasn:t like a tent caterpillar but more like a thin veil that covered the blossoms. It was an overnight raid and also stripped my snowball trees at the same time. A friend had it show up exactly the same time and stripped all their ornamentals. Like me, it wasn:t there one day and the damage was done overnight.
Yes I am organic and have been for close to 20 years.I had already sprayed BT in the orchard a few days prior. And the population of tent caterpillar and OBLR was relatively low in comparison to other years. I hope I never see it again but I was looking for an instant kill product. I have used Entrust in the past but quite frankly havent found it effective.I have about 200 bird houses in the orchard that are occupied every year by swallows and bluebirds. I have released trigagramma in the orchard several times. I also use Clay a lot here.
Thanks for your response - I appreciate the help!
Re: Pyganic
April 11, 2019 08:40AM
It certainly now does sound like OFM. There is also mating disruption as an alternative. But first I would put out some pheromone traps to catch the adults and see what's flying around out there. You can get from Great Lakes IPM. There is a product called OFM Insta-Zap - I wish. Really, Entrust should be good. Bt should also work if the leps are out an feeding. PyGanic is $$ and not a preferred material of mine for problem pests. You could also try some novel approaches such as Grandevo + Thymegard in rotation with other sprays

Mike Biltonen, Know Your Roots
Zone 5b in New York
Re: PyGanic for unknown pest
April 14, 2019 10:24AM
I wonder if this could be a type of sawfly? It is tough not having a good ID, because Bt or mating disruption will not be effective if it is not actually OFM.
What were the ornamentals that your friend had which were also attacked, by the (probably?) same pest?
If it is a sawfly, I think that Entrust is the best choice. It will also be effective against OFM. If you use it, skip the Bt. Figure that an Entrust spray will be effective for 10 days.
Brian

Hemlock Grove Farm
Zone 5 in New York
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