The blood runs within

The title stands just because, who wouldn't click on THAT.
The red-fleshed varieties certainly are crowd wow-ers. Hidden Rose is often mentioned due to good marketing, and it is a good tasting apple, with a pronounced watermelon flavor when I have ripened it long.( I will only refer to it as Arlie's Redfleshed here on out, since I received a phone call from the new "owners" of the trademarked name, seeking royalties. The original Arlie's was not developed by the owners. I will leave it at that). Almata is a favorite of mine, early to bear, very cold hardy, and a beautiful tree in both color and form. Redfield is also a good one, and nice large apples to boot. These last two are tart, but edible for tart lovers. Our pink pearl trees look like they will not make the zone 3 cut, having produced a little, but suffer from extreme dieback. Others of note are the many crabs. We have redfleshed strains of Dolgo and Selkirk, both sizable enough for kitchen use or snacking. Selkirk is tarter than dolgo for sure. Oddballs to mention are the bud series rootstock, which make nice crabs in their own right for the kitchen. Small but usable. These are just some of the real redfleshers, but many red apples if ripened long enough will have bleeding into the flesh (Beacon is one). This color indicates a higher nutritional quality in the flesh as well. And of course, who could resist having some pinky purple blooms in the spring. When in doubt in your wild samplings, if you cut a twig and the wood is reddish, the tendency is that the fruit flesh and blooms will be tinted to the reds.

Walden Heights Nursery & Orchard
Zone 3 in Vermont



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/21/2016 06:22PM by Todd Parlo.

Too bad the Pink Pearl isn't makin' it in zone 3 there - that's a fine apple! Alpenfire, the local cidery to whom we sell our apples, makes a fine single varietal cider out of the Hidden Rose, called "Glow". Not sure it's marketed out east, but grab a bottle if you can. Much of the color remains post fermentation.

Nick Segner

Wildcat Valley Farm
Zone 8b
Olympic Peninsula Rainshadow
Port Angeles, Washington

Don't forget to mention Scarlet Surprise. The taste is a bit tart but it works well in pies, crisps, fruit salads and turns your lemonade pink! See it in my orchard here: [www.youtube.com]

We have planted every red-fleshed variety we could find but most of the trees are not bearing yet so I can't comment. Pink Pearl is outstanding in our region though and so we planted more of them this year. Besides the many of the ones mentioned above, we have Burford Red, Winekist, Grenadine, Pink Sparkle, Pink Princess, Firecracker (crab), and Mountain Rose. Maybe a couple of others too. Maybe this fall I can comment more.

Fruitilicious Farm
Zone 9b in California

Hi, I'm new to this forum, what a huge wealth of info! We started planting our mostly cider orchard in 2012. But who can resist the red fleshed varieties? I bought several from Greenmantle and only 2 survived the first year (2012), Rubyiat and Nedzwetskyana. Both have developed scab, we are now searching for holistic help for these otherwise beautiful trees. We got one large, perfect Apple on the Nedz last year, deep purplish skin with blue bloom, and extremely dark red flesh. It is described as a crab, but this was a giant for a crab! Rubyiat tree has a very symmetrical growth habit, set a lot of fruit this year, but extremely scabby, will be good only for pressing. We also added Redfield last year. So far it does not seem to be affected by scab. Once we figure out where we can expand and put in more trees, I'll be looking for more red flesh varieties to try!

Vista Ridge Orchard
Zone 8a in Washington
235 Cider and heritage apple trees, 72 varieties,

My Niedwietschkaya, (or however you want to spell it in Western script) is similarly rather scab prone. But nowhere near as bad as Glowing Heart, (which I think was a selection from Fred Jansen, one of the founders of NAFEX. If I am correct, it arose in Ontario on the Niagara escarpment - drier than my Maritime Atlantic climate??)

Broomholm Orchard
Zone 5b in Nova Scotia

In eastern Canada, one of the most common redflesh variety is the Geneva, which was obtained as a seedling of M.niedzwetzkyana in Ottawa during the 1920's. It is used a lot by the Quebec cidermakers for rosé cider. In my orchard, this Geneva is scab resistant. It produces very acidic fruit with a lot of tannin and low in sugar. Blending with a sweet apple is required for a not-too-sharp cider.
I agree with David in that the Glowing Heart is quite scab sensitive. Also, it ripens much earlier and this makes it less suitable for cider making.
Claude

Jolicoeur Orchard
Zone 4 in Quebec
Author, The New Cider Maker's Handbook

I may add this link to a russian article with nice pictures of tha trees and of Niedzwetsky (the man who discovered it)
[berendeishche.livejournal.com]
Claude

Jolicoeur Orchard
Zone 4 in Quebec
Author, The New Cider Maker's Handbook

My browser would not translate the page, unfortunately, because while the flower color is the same, the leaf color does not match the niedzwetskyanna trees that we have. Ours has very distinct purplish green leaves with almost a blue tint, and the leaves are large. Even new growth is colored, not the bright green that is shown in the photos. Too bad they did not post a fruit picture.

Vista Ridge Orchard
Zone 8a in Washington
235 Cider and heritage apple trees, 72 varieties,

We got out first harvests of two pink fleshed kinds this week. Pink Permain is an Etter variety and is an attractive fairly large apple. It seems to have a very narrow window of just ripe to over ripe. The sugar is higher than Pink Pearl but it is not as crisp. It is very pink. Pink Princess is a cross of Pink Pearl with a crab apple. Our two trees are not very vigorous and the few fruit were starting to drop so we picked the other 6 apples. They are pink but not as bright as the other pinks, and they are quite tart but crisp. They might not be quite ready.

Fruitilicious Farm
Zone 9b in California

Zea Sonnabend Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Pink Princess is a cross of Pink Pearl with a crab apple....

Zea, is this the Pink Princess that was bred by Fred Janson in Ontario?
It was first introduced as Pink Lady in 1977, but the Australians did also release a Pink Lady, so Fred changed its name to Pink Princess in 1998...
If that is the one, it would be a cross of Pink Pearl x King of the Pippins (or Reine de reinettes in French). I remember Fred wrote to the NAFEX journal that as it was the daughter of a king, it deserved to be named princess...

I agree the flesh color isn't very deep, rather pinkish... nothing to compare with a true deep redflesh.

Claude

Jolicoeur Orchard
Zone 4 in Quebec
Author, The New Cider Maker's Handbook

Yes, this is attributed to Fred Janson, but my source, Trees of Antiquity, says it is Pink Pearl crossed with Bronze Leaf Crab.

Fruitilicious Farm
Zone 9b in California

Zea Sonnabend Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Yes, this is attributed to Fred Janson, but my
> source, Trees of Antiquity, says it is Pink Pearl
> crossed with Bronze Leaf Crab.

I don't want to say anything against Trees of Antiquity, but in my opinion, the information originating from the breeder (Fred Janson) has good chances to be the most reliable...
Maybe it would be worth to ask Trees of Antiquity where they got their information from.
Claude

Jolicoeur Orchard
Zone 4 in Quebec
Author, The New Cider Maker's Handbook

Hi, new to the forum, new to organic Apple farming. Fred Janson developed the red fleshed Pink Princess and Glowing Heart in our area of South central Ontario. We are growing both the above + Pink Pearl, Hidden rose, tickled pink, pink Pearmain and a few more of Albert Etters breeding. We are more interested in the baking qualities than the cider qualities and marketing them as such. China is currently planting the Redloves on mass to be used in red rose Apple juice. Baking qualities as some retain the red flesh after Baking, others keep the scarlet red when processed into Apple sauce. For us it's a mix of marketing with local history and mix of marketing a hip cool Apple to the greater Toronto Market.

Tom MacIntosh
Orchard Manager Paradise Fields
Hamilton Ontario Zone 6a

Hi all, The red fleshed varieties have always been popular for us. We direct market all our fruit and now these days most is in u pick. We did come up with a neat trick for our earliest red fleshed variety though, we will do mixed bags of Pink Pearls or Mott Pinks along with equal amounts of Gravensteins. We sell these along with a short recipe card for making "pink" apple sauce. Customers love it at our store and the farmers market!

I grow Mott Pink, Pink Pearl, Hidden Rose, Red Devil and Geneva Crab. The Redloves look particularly interesting due to their scab resistance and spreading out the harvest season.

Leslie Price
Jones Creek Farms
Lyman, WA
zone 8a

Leslie - What are you thoughts on Red Devil flavour wise and coloring wise?

Zone 8:
Vancouver Island, BC
CANADA

Im not sure my Red Devil is truly Red Devil.... I grafted several trees of this onto M26 in 2014 and now they are producing well but the flesh shows NO sign of color. The leaves of the trees are green and the fruit is somewhat flatish. Of course at this point the flavour is very tart as they are a ways away from maturity.
Cant seem to figure out how to att a pic to this post but you can see a pic i took this morn of the cut fruit i put up on my email.jonescreekfarms@yahoo.com

Leslie did your Red Devil get more color once ripe? We have several Rubyiat trees that grow extremely well for us, productive but some scab, the flesh does not turn red until it is really ripe.

Vista Ridge Orchard
Zone 8a in Washington
235 Cider and heritage apple trees, 72 varieties,

Hi Karen, for us the Red Devil did not get much color. Much like the coloring of Pink Pearl when over producing and all are light pink or blanched. It may just be that the trees are still too young or that the variety is not well suited for our area. We will see this year. One outstanding standout this last year was Grenadine. Larger than any other red flesh apple we have seen and solid, dark crimson flesh. Tart and firm just as the taste buds of our bazar clientele demand. It is growing in the certified organic block along with most of the other red fleshed varieties and so far no scab problems. This block receives no fungicide treatments except for Anthracnose, fall thru spring.
I am always on the lookout for new red fleshed varieties that will work out in a no spray program. I managed to get my hands on scion wood of the Redlove varieties and am giving them a shot as well as the Kissabel varieties.

Leslie Price
Jones Creek Farms
skagitvalleyfruit.com
Lyman, WA
zone 8a

Leslie, what do you use for Anthracnose? We bud grafted Grenadine a few years ago but it struggled and died. Rubiyat does exceedingly well for us, some scab but outstanding dark flesh. I've always been intrigued by the Etter apples, Eden is my favorite to eat, better flavor than Wickson I think. Vixen is extremely prolific for us and not a spec of scab.

The tree sold to us as Neidzwetskyana by Greenmantle does not quite match the descriptions I've seen online. Ours is quite large, dark purple on the outside with some bloom, and very dark red on the inside. It is on the dry side, and quite tart! Anyone know what it might be if not a Neidzwetskyana?

Apple picture

outside of apple

Flower close up

Whole tree

Vista Ridge Orchard
Zone 8a in Washington
235 Cider and heritage apple trees, 72 varieties,



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/27/2020 07:32AM by Karen Brindle.

Karen Brindle Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The tree sold to us as Neidzwetskyana by
> Greenmantle does not quite match the descriptions
> I've seen online. Ours is quite large, dark purple
> on the outside with some bloom, and very dark red
> on the inside. It is on the dry side, and quite
> tart! Anyone know what it might be if not a
> Neidzwetskyana?

Karen,
As far as I know, Niedzwetzkyana is not a cultivar but a species (or possibly a sub-species). It is often mentioned as Malus niedzwetzkyana, or sometimes as Malus pumila niedzwetzkyana, or other similar variation.
This means there is not a single set of characteristics for the tree and fruit. It is like if you talked about Malus baccata (the siberian crab), there are many forms of fruit, color and size within the species.

As we all know, the main features of Malus niedzwetzkyana reside in the red color of wood, flowers and fruit flesh, the bronze color of the foliage, and the tartness and low sugar of the flavor. There are also many hybrids that were bred between Malus niedzwetzkyana and cultivars of dessert apples, where the aim has been to improve the flavor points while retaining the red-flesh character.

If you have a pure Malus niedzwetzkyana (or a selection from it), it is normal its characteristics may vary from any written description.
Claude

Jolicoeur Orchard
Zone 4 in Quebec
Author, The New Cider Maker's Handbook

Karen, I am not familiar with Niedzwetzkyana but it sounds and looks, from your pics, a lot like the Geneva Crab that I grow. Possible exception might be that the Geneva fruit is just slightly oblate on average. Probably darker flesh color too, more like a blood red. Very juicy, a local cider maker was using these to color their cider. Very scab susceptible though.

I'm going to post a separate thread of how "Dealing with Anthracnose in the Pacific Northwest" is a particular regional challenge in the Fungal Pathogens category.

Leslie Price
Jones Creek Farms
skagitvalleyfruit.com
Lyman, WA
zone 8a



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 04/29/2020 01:27AM by Michael Phillips.

Claude, thanks so much for the explanation, I'll stop scratching my head now when looking for an exact description of the trees we have!

Vista Ridge Orchard
Zone 8a in Washington
235 Cider and heritage apple trees, 72 varieties,

We are experiencing a curious phenomenon in our redfleshed apple varieties this season: the flesh is just not red! The tip-off was when we sampled our Pink Pearl and Airlie Redflesh for the first time, with much anticipation, and found them to be perfectly ripe, of excellent flavor, but decidedly white-fleshed inside. We wondered if our scionwood from years ago could have been wrong, but the flowers for both varieties are that lovely fuschia pink that signals a red-fleshed variety and flavor was in accordance with descriptions. It's been in the back of our minds to look into, but we've been mostly too busy with other orchard everything to do more than wonder. Then we had a 4-H group of kids come out for an orchard visit, and we put together a bunch of interesting apples, ripe and unripe, just to show them how many different shapes and sizes and colors there are in apple land. Imagine our embarrassment when we went on about redfleshed apples, then cut open an unripe Burford's Redflesh to exhibit the white, normal apple-looking flesh inside. There is no judgement more damning than that passed down by a group of disappointed 8 year-olds.

We've checked our Redfield block and same deal. This is not our first rodeo with Redfield and Burford's, and they should definitely have been exhibiting color months ago (I've cut open ping-pong sized fruitlets to take pictures of the red flesh inside), let alone by now, when we are about to put them on our harvest list. I read through this thread and found a reference to Pink Pearl not coloring up inside when trees are overcropped or immature. I wouldn't consider any of our redfleshed trees to be either, although it is great to know there is precedence. Our only working theory is that the exceptionally hot, dry temperatures in our neck of the woods must have contributed to this phenomenon of white redfleshed apples in some way. Anybody else have any thoughts or experience this before? The red pigmentation has been present in every other aspect of these trees this season, from flower color to leaf and inner twig color. We're wondering what the lack of flesh color will do to the cider -- after all, while the cider may take some of its rose color from the deep red of the outer skin, I assume most of it comes from the flesh itself.

Kordick Family Farm
Westfield, NC
Zone 7a

This may be way off, but the first thing that came to mind was the quarter mile stretch of WHITE (normally purple) lilacs down the road from us this year. Ours were also white, as well as a few I noticed in town. Later on I read that it was due to our abnormally long, cold, spring here in SW Wisconsin. So that’s only to say that yes, temperature can affect color.

Since this thread popped up I thought I’d mention RedLove ERA. Only just now available here, our four year old trees have yet to fruit, but show less damage from CAR or rust than other varieties. I’ll add more info to the review as we find out.

Brittany Kordick Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> We are experiencing a curious phenomenon in our
> redfleshed apple varieties this season: the flesh
> is just not red! The tip-off was when we sampled
> our Pink Pearl and Airlie Redflesh for the first
> time, with much anticipation, and found them to be
> perfectly ripe, of excellent flavor, but decidedly
> white-fleshed inside. We wondered if our
> scionwood from years ago could have been wrong,
> but the flowers for both varieties are that lovely
> fuschia pink that signals a red-fleshed variety
> and flavor was in accordance with descriptions.
> It's been in the back of our minds to look into,
> but we've been mostly too busy with other orchard
> everything to do more than wonder. Then we had a
> 4-H group of kids come out for an orchard visit,
> and we put together a bunch of interesting apples,
> ripe and unripe, just to show them how many
> different shapes and sizes and colors there are in
> apple land. Imagine our embarrassment when we
> went on about redfleshed apples, then cut open an
> unripe Burford's Redflesh to exhibit the white,
> normal apple-looking flesh inside. There is no
> judgement more damning than that passed down by a
> group of disappointed 8 year-olds.
>
> We've checked our Redfield block and same deal.
> This is not our first rodeo with Redfield and
> Burford's, and they should definitely have been
> exhibiting color months ago (I've cut open
> ping-pong sized fruitlets to take pictures of the
> red flesh inside), let alone by now, when we are
> about to put them on our harvest list. I read
> through this thread and found a reference to Pink
> Pearl not coloring up inside when trees are
> overcropped or immature. I wouldn't consider any
> of our redfleshed trees to be either, although it
> is great to know there is precedence. Our only
> working theory is that the exceptionally hot, dry
> temperatures in our neck of the woods must have
> contributed to this phenomenon of white redfleshed
> apples in some way. Anybody else have any
> thoughts or experience this before? The red
> pigmentation has been present in every other
> aspect of these trees this season, from flower
> color to leaf and inner twig color. We're
> wondering what the lack of flesh color will do to
> the cider -- after all, while the cider may take
> some of its rose color from the deep red of the
> outer skin, I assume most of it comes from the
> flesh itself.


Wow! your Arlie is ripe already.... thats amazing! Its an early October apple for us here in western Washington. Even Pink Pearl is a ways away.
I have personally observed huge differences in coloration especially in the Pink Pearl and Mott Pink. I scratched my head for many seasons over this because, like you and your 4H incident, its embarrassing. There may be other contributing factors such as weather but its NOT light, nutrients, moisture. My personal conclusion is crop load. The Arlie seems to handle over cropping a lot better as far as coloration but the Pink Pearl seems to just produce a bunch of white fleshed apples when over cropped. Not only that but it seems all these varieties are prone to alternate bearing with the Pink Pearl being the worst if allowed to go unchecked with heavy crop.